To kick off oral argument, Andrew Pincus, appearing as amicus for KeyBank,
representing the Chamber of Commerce, was asked by Chief Judge Kozinski if Concepcion
is distinguishable because a public injunction is a remedy and not a
claim. Pincus, who argued on behalf of AT&T at the US Supreme Court
in Concepcion, responded by citing to Mastrobono v. Shearson
Lehman Hutton, Inc. (1995) 514 US 52, where punitive damages (a
remedy) was preempted by the FAA.
Judge Smith then asked Pincus if Concepcion is controlling, and if
so why? Judge Smith wanted to know what public injunction Plaintiffs were
seeking where the helicopter training school in question had already shut down,
asking “what are we protecting the public from?” Judge Hurwitz questioned
whether Concepcion bars any state rule from limiting arbitration, even
where public health and safety are concerned. Pincus responded that a
public injunction requires class certification raising UCL standing
requirements after Proposition 64, and contending class arbitration falls
squarely within the holding in Concepcion. Judge McKeown brought
up the savings clause under the FAA raising unconscionability as a general
contract defense. Judge Callahan followed up with a question to Pincus
asking whether a court or an arbitrator should decide the issue of
unconscionability. Pincus was quick to respond the Court should decide
whether an arbitration provision is deemed unconscionable.
Judge McKeown asked about whether there is an intersection between unconscionability
and public policy, raising the U.S. Supreme Court’s recent decision in Marmet
Health Care Ctr., Inc. v. Brown, (2012) 132 S. Ct. 1201. Judge
McKeown pondered whether a violation of public policy, as unconscionable was
left open by Marmet. Then Judge Smith asked if the panel should
withhold its opinion until the Supreme Court rules on American Express Co.
v. Italian Colors Restaurant. Pincus distinguished the case at bar
on state law versus federal law vindication of rights, urging the panel to find
the Amex case has no relevance on that basis.
The argument then shifted to Cruz/Broughton with Judge Watford
attempting to elicit a response to whether individual
arbitration can be forced when a public injunction is being sought. Pincus pointed
again to the use of the class action device as mandated by Proposition 64,
pointing specifically to Business and Professions Code §17203. Judge
Callahan asked Pincus if the panel were to agree with the Defendant’s position
and overrule Broughton and Cruz would it only be binding in federal courts or would it overrule California law. Pincus answered it
would only be persuasive authority in California.
Splitting the argument, Scott O’Connell stepped in for KeyBank stating the
panel need not overrule Broughton/Cruz because Plaintiffs here are
simply looking for debt relief and can obtain all relief with no need for
representative status because KeyBank no longer makes student loans for
vocational training. Judge Watford then asked if the panel should wait
for the California Supreme Court to rule on Iskanian. Shockingly,
KeyBank’s counsel was not familiar with the California case, but stated that
under Concepcion and the supremacy clause, the case should be sent to
arbitration. Judge Fletcher questioned whether the type of relief
sought in this case is a public injunction within the meaning of Cruz.
Judge Pregerson then raised Proposition 64 standing requirements and
commented that a representative must be injured in order to seek a public
injunction. Judge Watford asked O’Connell how he could obtain an order in
arbitration forbidding a Defendant from continuing unlawful activities.
O’Connell admitted, “you can’t get it.”
Judge Fletcher keyed in on the Proposition 64 standing issue, pointing out
that only people who have not been victims, because they have not signed
contracts and are not subject to the arbitration clause, could bring a
representative action; however, after Proposition 64 a representative must be
injured by the business practice. O’Connell admitted that there would be no
prospective relief available where there is a general fraud on the public and
an arbitration clause, unless brought by the Attorney General. The
discussion then moved to additional standing concerns revolving around Article III standing and Judge Hurwitz noted that Defendant had removed the case to federal court and there is a statutory issue. No resolution to this issue
was articulated.
Judge McKeown zeroed in on the specific arbitration provision at issue in
the KeyBank agreement seeking clarification on the opt-out provision and the
60-day period in which to opt out and retain full access to the courts. Judge
McKeown then circled back around to where do public policy and
unconscionability intersect, adding a new query as to whether choice of venue
could also be considered unconscionable. O’Connell relied on the
Supremacy Clause and reiterated that all claims must be arbitrated where a
valid arbitration agreement is in place.
Judge Hurwitz raised Cruz/Broughton again and asked whether the
question should be certified to the California Supreme Court. O’Connell
did not believe the question needed to be certified where there was no
possibility of future harm, because KeyBank no longer funds loans to trade and
vocational schools.
James C. Sturdevant appearing for Plaintiffs launched into his opening and
stated that Broughton/Cruz should be analyzed by California. Judge
Tallman was the first to interrupt Sturdevant’s prepared argument asking what
could be wrong with compelling the individual representatives to arbitration,
and then litigate the public injunction claim to restrain the business
practice after. Sturdevant was adamant that only public injunctive relief
was requested in the operative complaint. Judge Tallman observed the
individual representatives actually wanted individual relief in the form of debt
relief. Chief Judge Kozinski echoed that the Plaintiffs here were trying
to get out from under their student loan debt and he could not see how it is not
an individual claim. Sturdevant made an attempt to reframe relief sought
as prohibiting KeyBank from debt collection enforcement and restraining KeyBank from negatively affecting plaintiffs’ credit reporting. Judge McKeown
attempted to clarify the relief as (1) declaratory relief so plaintiffs no
longer owe money and (2) separately to correct KeyBank’s business
practices. Chief Judge Kozinski asked Sturdevant why plaintiffs could not
litigate before an arbitrator. Sturdevant stood firm that Plaintiffs were
seeking a public injunction and therefore their substantive rights would not be
vindicated. Chief Judge Kozinski re-asked the same question and
Sturdevant again stood firm that the claims cannot be arbitrated because all
relief sought would take the form of a public injunction.
“California, an unusual cart”
Chief Judge Kozinski posed the question, “What’s wrong with putting the cart
before the horse?” The precursor to the horse and the cart analogy was
ushered in by Judge Hurwitz repeatedly pressuring Plaintiffs’ counsel to
concede liability of individual claims to an arbitrator, and only after an
individual plaintiff succeeds in arbitration, would a claim for public
injunction be brought in district court. Plaintiffs’ counsel would not
concede and repeated on more than one occasion that it would eliminate
plaintiffs’ substantive rights. Judge Tallman pushed on the form of
relief and questioned Sturdevant about whether the initial complaint sought
solely public injunctive relief. Sturdevant referred back to the second
and third amended complaints and could not answer as to the original
complaint.
Judge Smith shifted the focus back to the class vehicle and sought agreement
that without the class allegations, all plaintiffs have are individual
claims. Sturdevant answered in the affirmative, but again clarified that
the plaintiffs would not be able to vindicate all their substantive
rights. Judge Smith questioned the need for prospective relief noting KeyBank no longer issues these types of notes. Sturdevant stated that KeyBank continues to engage in school funding and continues to violate the FTC’s “Holder Rule” [16 C.F.R. § 433.2] which is the predicate violation under the UCL. Judge
Smith admitted to struggling with public injunction based on the case-specific
facts and raised bifurcation as an option. Sturdevant repeated
bifurcation is not a viable option where a party then cannot vindicate all
of its statutory rights.
Chief Judge Kozinski asked whether California could eliminate the authority
of an arbitrator with respect to public relief and stay consistent with the
FAA. Sturdevant stated that this is not a question in this case. Chief Judge
Kozinski asked Sturdevant to answer his question. Sturdevant stated that
it was not like being at the optometrist. Chief Judge Kozinski said that
the panel’s opinion most certainly would be like being in front of the
optometrist, as the answer to the question will be either “yes” or “no.”
Chief Judge Kozinski continued to push and wanted to hear Sturdevant’s reply to
whether California can restrict arbitration. Sturdevant finally replied
that California couldn’t take away a fundamental right.
Judge Pregerson, who commented that he has known Sturdevant for years, posed
the question, “what is the bottom line of your lawsuit?” Sturdevant
answered that the lawsuit is to protect the students and others like them. Judge
Pregerson inquired as to why each of these students cannot arbitrate
individually. Sturdevant answered that the operative complaint does not
seek individual relief, but seeks broad public relief. Judge Pregerson finished
up questioning asking what would the injunction restrain KeyBank from
doing? Sturdevant stated that KeyBank would be restrained from making
loans in the future that violate the Holder Rule.
Judge Hurwitz continued with fact intensive clarification naming two
distinct groups (1) helicopter students and (2) future students. Noting
there are approximately 500 people in the first group. As for the future
group, Judge Hurwitz inquired as to the ongoing business behavior and whether
the alleged bad acts are continuing. Sturdevant pointed to the third
amended complaint as the operative complaint and deferred to needing to find
the evidence, but the allegations are that after the Holder Rule was
violated, KeyBank continued to pay money to the school, unnecessarily
indebting plaintiffs.
Judge McKeown brought the discussion back to standing and again cited the Marmet
case and back to Concepcion. Sturdevant commented in Marmet West
Virginia prohibited any arbitration clauses in all nursing home claims. Judge
McKeown wanted to know why this case is not the same. Sturdevant stated
that there is an inherent conflict where the claims for relief cannot be issued
or administered by an arbitrator.
Judge Tallman asked why the plaintiffs cannot first go to arbitration and
then go to the District Court and get enforcement and relief. Chief Judge
Kozinski wanted to know why arbitrators cannot issue injunctive relief.
Sturdevant argued that there is an inherent conflict. Chief Judge
Kozinski asked the same question again. Judge Christen asked whether an
arbitrator can enter or enforce a public injunction. Sturdevant again
stated that there is an inherent conflict and there are no cases to support
such an act. Judge Pregerson commented, “if they did it they’d be out of
business.”
KeyBank’s counsel closed with a citation to Preston v. Ferrer
(2008) 552 U.S. 346, with Chief Judge Kozinski noting case-specific facts
of the cooling off period of 60 days.
Questioning closed with Judge Pregerson asking why KeyBank got out of the
vocational student loan business and why KeyBank continued to pay the
helicopter school.
APPEARANCES:
Andrew
J. Pincus– Chamber of Commerce, Amicus for KeyBank
Scott
O’Connell – KeyBank
James C. Sturdevant – Plaintiffs’ Counsel
PANEL:
(1) Watford,
Paul Jeffrey
(2) Murguia,
Mary H.
(3) Callahan,
Consuelo Maria
(4) Fletcher,
William A.
(5) Pregerson,
Harry
(6) Kozinski,
Alex
(7) McKeown,
M. Margaret
(8) Tallman,
Richard C.
(9) Smith,
Milan D., Jr.
(10) Christen,
Morgan
(11)
Hurwitz,
Andrew David